These guys warm my soul, strengthen my faith and remind me over and over again that there is a destiny to each of our lives and that the destiny of each of our lives is meant to be a magnificent and satisfying thing, and it can be such if they will only accept the reality that each of us must work out our own redemption and refuse to submit ourselves to the redemptive ideals of others.
But this is not a post about all those guys I talk to or would like to talk to. This is a tale of two women, two very different women. While I talk to hundreds of guys, it is rare for me to talk to women. It's really rare for me to even hear from women. Once in a great while, I will get a letter from an aggrieved and sorrowful woman who, in her anger, lashes out at me because I've chosen to post my philosophy on line for all to see and am thus available as a whipping post.
I almost never get a letter from a woman seeking help in dealing with a bisexual or homosexual husband. More often I get angry and threatening letters from women.
A few weeks ago within hours of each other, I heard from two women. My chat with the two of them lasted for some time. The chat with one continues.
For the sake of making it easier to following the dialogue, I'll call the first young woman Angry Ann. The second young lady, I'll call Hope. Each name fairly describes each woman. I respect each of these women's privacy and I have been very careful to reveal anything that would place them in any specific location or indicate in any way who they are. There is no way anyone can identify them through this blog.
The tale I tell here is as i understood it to be told by each young woman. I apologize for any misconception on my part and either young lady is free to refute any misconception on my part concerning them in the comment section of this blog.
The words I use in this post are the words of each young woman though the phrasing and the chronology is often mine in the interest of keeping this post readable.
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| Angry Ann |
She went on to say she was a fabulous young woman who has much to offer a marriage partner, yet she is struggling to find a mate because it seems all the men she is interested in are interested in other men. She said it hurts to be rejected because she has a vagina rather than a cock. Her greatest wish is that every single bisexual and gay man would quickly find someone and get married so that she could find the man she wants and quit having to go to bed alone and taking vacations with girlfriends.
She went on to say she is so tired of watching men at churches and bars and singles clubs eye each other when they think the women don't notice. Then she switched course 180 degrees and thanked me for my blog because it had given her the right to be angry. It had given her the right and the courage to demand that men be men and reserve their penises for women. She is, she said, determined to find a man she likes and demand that he be sexually faithful to her.
Hope's first letter to me was much different. She told me she was a young woman with two young children who is married to a wonderful young man who is everything she has ever wanted in life. I'll call him Struggle. They have been friends since high school and she has always secretly loved him. He had been in the military after school and thankfully survived. Upon his return to civilian life, they renewed their friendship and she finally professed her love to him and they married. For several years they enjoyed what seemed to be the best of marriages and family lives.
Then things began to change. At first she could not figure it out. She thought perhaps Iraq had changed him in someway. Maybe what he had seen there and done there had caught up with him and PTSD was taking its toll.
Eventually, there was counseling but from Hope's perspective, thing continued to go down hill. The friend and husband who had shared everything with her had become a cold and private man who refused to share his thoughts with her. He seldom laughed. He seemed preoccupied almost all the time.
Not to be put off and valuing her marriage and her family greatly, she continued to push her husband to open up to her and to share whatever demons were causing him to change into a man she didn't know. She promised him there was absolutely nothing he could tell her that would cause her to stop loving him.
Finally, the day came when he did open up. He told her that he was at least a bisexual man and perhaps a homosexual man. He did not yet know for sure though he was sure he was more homosexual than bisexual.
In her letter to me, Hope said she still loved him and she was willing to do anything for him including share him with a man if she had to. She said she absolutely refused to play the part of a victim. She would share him or she would let him go if she had to, but she would always love him.
Her husband was back and forth. One day he would tell her he loved her and another he would say he just was confused and he couldn't be sure what his feelings were. She had married him for all the right reasons, she said. They were friends. They laughed together, they shared, she wanted to grow old with him. He finally confessed to feel much the same way, but a little different in a big way. She was his friend, they laughed together, they shared, he wanted to be with her, but he also thought the desires within him would perhaps change when they got married. They had not changed except to become more demanding and more insistent. His reaction to these demons was to shut down.
With that confession from her husband, Hope went into her own tailspin. At times she loved him even more for the pain he was suffering for her and for his own plight. At other times she felt he had never loved her, that their marriage had been a sham from the first. She still loves him, but she sometimes finds herself doubting he could ever love her as much. The only thing that never changed is her desire, her need to hold on to him and their marriage no matter work.
As mine and Hope's chats picked up pace she continued to tell me much of what she was thinking. I found she had a blog and I began reading it. I found there was a public face in her blog that was much more filled with negative feelings than were her expressions of hope to me.
At one point her husband told her he has always loved her but he felt bad because he knew he could never lover her wholly and completely as she deserved to be loved. He admitted he questioned her love because he simply could not understand how she could love her so much knowing what she now knows about him.
Hope's husband began an undefined relationship with another man. He was open with Hope that the relationship existed. He is not open about the extent of it (and in my opinion, he should not be I told Hope).
That admission caused Hope to become a person she has never been, a person she hates. She began to snoop into his relationship with the guy. Searching his computer for clues, eavesdropping on his phone conversations hoping for clues. She was compelled to do all this, but at the same time disgusted with herself for doing it.
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| Hope & Struggle |
In the mean time, messages from Angry Ann were getting more and more bizarre. She informed me she was going to get her man and his partner would just have to deal with it. Their behavior was unquestionably wrong. It was selfish. It was her right as a woman to be married and have children with a man who would be into their relationship fully, by choice. Homosexuality, she said, is nothing more than a choice to continue following boyhood desires long after they should have been put away.
Because Angry Ann was obviously an intelligent, though misguided woman, I wrote to her back hoping I could get her to see that gay and bisexual men were not making choices anymore that straight people were.
Her response shocked me. For the first time I realized she was not talking about a theory. She was talking reality. She had found an admittedly gay and partnered man whom she planned to marry and change into a straight man.
She said, "This is clearly an answer you have given many times Jack and one that you don't really believe yourself. Please try again from a position of honesty. I love this man and he loves me and we need to figure out how to work through this and if you have some real insight not some pat answer I want to hear it. We do love each other and both of our families will be in a better position if we choose to marry. Also, I believe that we always always have a choice and I know that you believe that too or you would not have chosen to marry. We may not choose our feelings but we do choose our actions. Now please, try again. This is a real situation that needs real solution and you have walked this out for many years. Or perhaps, I should be speaking to your wife.
And btw, I have a right to be angry about this. It is a vile thing and I hate having to deal with it and resent that he acted on his feelings rather than doing what he knew to be the right things to do. It should not be this way and I should not be in this position but due to his behavior I am and I have to deal with it now."
Hope continued trying her best to understand and work things out. I had scolded her about her snooping into her husbands computer and phone calls and emails. She admitted she should not do that and vowed to stop. She reported that her husband was seeing a counselor and that it seemed to be helping him deal with how he saw himself, but was having little impact on the problems surround their relationship and her wanting to accept it but yet being unable to do so no matter how much she wanted to.
I assured Hope she is a remarkable woman and I have come to respect and admire her. I began to share with her some of the ups and downs my wife and I had gone through in the months just after I had told her of my bisexuality. I told Hope that almost everything she has told me related in some way to feelings and emotions my wife expressed during that time. I told her my sexuality was now a non-issue in our lives and we were truly happy and still truly in love. I told her if she loved her husband she had to set him free and accept that he might use that freedom to fly away, to stay, or fly away and then return.
The last time we spoke, she and her husband had decided they would separate for a while and see how things work out. She continues to love him dearly and to want to spend her life with him. He can give her no such assurance, and I feel that is an honest response from him. I know it took me the greater part of 30 years to work through my own demons. The difference is I covered my demons well for all those years. My wife had not a clue. I truly loved her. Our life was wonderful. I led two lives. A straight life that was rewarding and loving and successful. At the same time I worked though a homosexual life that was painful, full of self hate, that I gradually came to see could also be full of rewards and self fulfillment and even a man I loved in a different way than I love my wife. In the end I was able to recognize that in living these two lives, I was living as a bisexual man. Is it fair to my wife? Of course not! It is simply beyond my understanding that when the time came she chose to live that life with me. She would not have chosen it, given a choice not too, but as she expressed it she was not going to let something she never knew about for over 30 years affect her now when it had not affected her all those years. One of her greatest sadnesses about it all was that she felt she had failed me by not realizing what I was struggling and in pain and torrment. That compassion simply is beyond my ability to understand. But I love her now more than I did when I was a boy of 16.
Angry Ann did not respond well to my beseeching her to understand she could not change and should not attempt to change "her man." She told me it was a good thing she did not know where I was because if she did she would do the world a favor and murder me. She told me I was the vilest of creatures.
When I expressed my shock at such a statement, she backed off and said she was just speaking metaphorically. She said that gay and bisexual men are weak and vile creatures who can only act on their impulses while she was a strong and self controlled woman who could control her own impulses.
She implied everything I had told her about my wife was a lie while she assured me she was a real woman living a real life. She again asked me to put her in contact with my wife if in fact my wife would verify every thing I had told her about my wife.
I declined, and told her I wished her well, but I felt quite strongly that nothing good was in her future. I told her that I saw no point to our continuing our discussion.
I have not heard back from Angry Ann. I did mean it when I wished her well. I would not wish the anger and the pain she feels at this time on anyone. And for sure I would not wish the anger or the pain she will eventually find on anyone.
Strangely, in all our conversations there was no indication from Angry Ann that the way she sees homosexuality and bisexuality springs from fundamental Christianity. In all the years I have been dealing with this issue and in all the thousands of people I have spoken to concerning it, I have never seen such hate and intolerance spring forth except from fundamental Christians. I hope Angry Ann finds a good counselor before her anger destroys herself and others. As always, I wish her well.
Strangely enough, in a way Angry Ann is right. She can perhaps force her future husband into a marriage and into trying to change. After all, by her own word, gay men are weak and victims to childish impulses. But Hope's husband foretells the future for Angry Ann and her husband. He will become withdrawn, angry and sullen. He more than likely will renounce his vow to her, openly or in secret, and return to sexual activity with a man or other men. It will most likely be a tragedy for both of them and for the family Angry Ann envisions.
Hope springs eternal, it is said; and so does Hope. She is, outside my wife, the most remarkable woman I have ever met. It was rare. You know how when you know a person well, but have never seen them and then you see them and they never look the way you imagined? Well, Hope shared a picture of herself and her beautiful children with me at one point and she looked exactly as I had pictured her in my mind's eye. Beautiful, strong, loving and full of hope.
I don't know what the future holds for Hope and her husband. He's chosen not to talk to me in spite of my efforts to get him to do so. I'm sorry about that. I know his demons well. I lived with them for almost 30 years. I could tell him all their secrets. I could tell him all their weapons and ways. I could tell him how I and other guys defeated those demons and began to live happy lives.
Of the two of them, Hope and her husband, his path will be by far the hardest to walk. There are many pitfalls, any one of which can destroy him and ruin his life. But I have no fear of the future for Hope. No matter what, Hope will be fine. Hope's path into the future will by no means be easy, but Hope will be ok. Thank you Hope for letting me get to know you. Thank you Hope for all you taught an old man. God bless you Hope and all those you love.
For married men who are married or want to be married and who are bisexual, there are no easy answers. There are no right or correct answers, but there sure are lots of wrong answers. Yet there are those of us who have made the most of the life we've been given to live.
For married homosexual men there are no easy answers either. But such men who are presently living lives of struggle and pain there can be a life of joy and redemption.
Neither man is cursed. A joyous life, a contented life, a productive and fulfilling life is possible. Some of us can share how we made it happen for us. You have to do the work for yourself. Are you up to it?
Are you a woman who has found you are living Hope's life or perhaps Angry Ann's life? There is no way to sugar coat it. There is pain and struggle ahead for you in either case. But the facts are these. I personally know women, and not just one or two women, who have found a life they can willingly live. It may not be the life they would choose, but it is a life they can embrace.
I also know personally women who insist on remaining angry and hurt and victimized, women who willingly embrace that life. For these women there is no hope for redemption. They have been victimized and they have chosen to live out their lives as victims. It is not pretty for them, their children or anyone who has to be around them. Which woman do you choose to be? Think about it carefully.
Are you a woman who has found you are living Hope's life or perhaps Angry Ann's life? There is no way to sugar coat it. There is pain and struggle ahead for you in either case. But the facts are these. I personally know women, and not just one or two women, who have found a life they can willingly live. It may not be the life they would choose, but it is a life they can embrace.
I also know personally women who insist on remaining angry and hurt and victimized, women who willingly embrace that life. For these women there is no hope for redemption. They have been victimized and they have chosen to live out their lives as victims. It is not pretty for them, their children or anyone who has to be around them. Which woman do you choose to be? Think about it carefully.
Jack Scott
I still have Hope!!! We are not done yet Jack Scott we have many more lectures and truthfully honest responses that need to be heard. It's not over!
ReplyDeleteJack - I'm finding it difficult to compose an adequate response to this post. So much of what you've touched on is complicated and varies by person and by relationship. And even the specifics about Ann and Hope are difficult to respond to because you have paraphrased what they've said. So, rather than post a specific reply, here is a (mostly) more general one...
ReplyDeleteAfter spending 25 years with a woman that I love, a woman that I would jump through any hoop to keep as my wife, a woman who I know loves me back, I have come to the firm conclusion that gay men should not be married to women.
The reason? Love is not enough.
I love my parents, siblings, and children. But the love between a man and woman is not that same kind of love. When a gay man and a straight woman love each other, the gay man has a fundamental inability to desire his straight wife in a way that will meet her long-term emotional needs. The couple can have satisfactory sex; the ability to perform is not the issue. What's paramount to understand is that women need to feel desired. A gay man, even with all his love and the best of intentions, cannot desire a straight woman in all the ways that she needs. Any straight woman who chooses to remain married to a gay man does so because she thinks love is enough. She also thinks that she is willing to be desired less than she deserves. Well, in time, the lack of desire eats at her, just as the lack of male intimacy eats at the gay man. Inevitably, neither partner is satisfied yet non-sexual love keeps them together. This is a cruel purgatory. Neither can leave, but staying together clearly isn't working either. Ultimately the couple will split, as soon as one partner realizes that...love is not enough.
Marriages between bisexual men and straight women are more complicated. Some bisexual men have the innate ability to make a woman feel desired. Some do not. The men who do not are no better marital partners for women than gay men, for the same reason. When a bisexual men of that type chooses to stay in his straight marriage he is committing both himself and his wife to lives of unfulfilling mediocrity. Very frequently there is no marital sex but plenty of down-low sex with men on the side. Is that a life a straight woman should want? I say, share the truth and let each woman decide for herself.
Jack, you are a bisexual man who has maintained a long and successful marriage. I'm sure your marriage has had its ups and downs, but ultimately it has worked because you have the innate ability to make your wife feel both loved AND desired. Because your experience is your frame of reference you assume that any man who loves a woman can work toward a happy marriage. Oh how I wish that were true. Although it would seem cruel and unnecessary to tell a married woman to leave her bisexual husband, particularly if she desperately wants the marriage to work, it's important to realize that, in the long-run, that may often be the best option.
...which it is for Ann and Hope.
Both women are chasing men who are clearly signaling that they cannot be satisfied in a straight relationship. Any actions that prolong these marriages only serve to delay the inevitable. It's difficult to say to a wonderful, loving and intelligent woman, but 'Hope' is a misnomer. A more fitting name is 'False Hope.'
Clearly I have strong feelings about this topic. And clearly, my own experience has been tremendously influential. But what sealed my convictions were the experiences of many dozens of straight wives. They've been there and done that, and as much as I hate to admit it, particularly as a gay man in love with a straight woman, they're right. Love is not enough.
Thanks for the post.
Two Lives, thanks so much for your comment. You hit every nail on the head except for one. I don't assume that any gay or bisexual man who loves a woman can work toward a successful marriage.
ReplyDeleteI assume that a very few can do so. I've accomplished it and a few other guys I know have done so to. But for most bisexual and gay guys such an accomplishment is simply impossible to do.
it is especially impossible to do for a bisexual guy who feels he compelled to tell his wife of his bisexuality.
Most of the homosexual men I know who have found happiness have been those who finally brought themselves to the decision they had to divorce and start over living openly as gay men.
Unfortunately man married non-straight men simply cannot bring themselves to bare the cost of breaking up their failed marriages and they choose to live unhappy lives using every excuse they can think of to justify their irrational decision.
I'm sure you understand all of this well based on your comment.
I am and always have been a realist. I can see things and hope for miracles, I recognize always that reality seldom involve such miracles. Happy and productive marriages for non-straight men simply are not in the cards for the masses. A lucky few beat the odds. I've always been a lucky (blessed) guy.
Why me? I have no idea.
Thanks again for your perceptive comment. I found it much much more than adequate.
Jack Scott