Monday, January 30, 2012

Tragedy - When Trying Hard Is Not Enough

Back in the middle of January, I posted a blog entitled, "A Tale of Two Women." At that time I was convinced that one of the women was setting herself, as well as the man she claimed to love, up for tragedy. I had high hopes for the other woman that she would be able to work  out the details and make her mixed orientation marriage work.

Tragically, it now looks like that is not to be. It's not that she didn't try. She gave it all she had. She struggled mightily. She wanted it to work; but in the end, it simply required more than she had to give.

She did a great job of talking the talk, trying to psych herself up to the challenges. In the end, she was only driving herself crazy. Up to it one hour and in the depths of despair the next hour. Try as she did with everything she had in her, she simply could not come to grips with her husbands homosexuality.

I write about this not to criticize this woman. She is an inspiration to me in many ways. She's a wonderful woman. Loving, intelligent, with much to give. She demands little. She is more than willing to be the one who works hardest to make her marriage work.

The only problem is that through no fault of her own, she simply does not have the capability to build what she wants into something she can actually live with. It is as if her dream is to build a stairway to heaven. No matter how much she dreams that dream, it simply cannot be accomplished.

If there is any fault in her situation, it lays not with her; but with her husband. She has turned every stone looking for help and advice. To the best of my knowledge, he has stubbornly refused to seek advice from other people who have made mixed orientation marriages work. As is so typical of many men, he has insisted on trying to build something very complex and complicated without reading the instructions.

I must say while she has been very good at seeking advice and has received a lot of good advice, she simply has been unable or unwilling to follow any of the advice she has received. I really think she wants to follow the advice that could help her, but she simply does not have the ability to do so. Though she insists she is willing to share her husband in a mixed orientation marriage, she simply is not up to the challenge.

I am so sorry for her. I wish I could make it better for her. I can't because as much as she wants to make it better too, she simply does not have the ability. Try as she has, she simply cannot walk on water.

So, I don't write any of this to condemn her. I respect her greatly for trying as hard as she has. I write this for the men who are on the other side of her situation, those married bisexual or homosexual men who are struggling with the question of whether to tell their wives and how much to tell them.

As I have said many many times, it is the most trying and critical questions a married bisexual man struggles with. There simply is no good answer to the question. There is no right answer to the question. This woman is living proof of that.

She was more than willing to hang onto her marriage by accepting a new paradigm -- a mixed orientation marriage. She found, much to her sorrow, anger and distress that one of the greatest tragedies of life is when trying one's best is simply not enough!

I have met hundreds and hundreds of homosexual and bisexual men. I have yet to meet the man who has not struggled with his sexuality. More often than not, the struggle has lasted for decades. More often than not, the struggle has severely wounded him. Many times it has caused him to think of himself as a true monster. I hear that over and over again. I am a monster.

With that being the fact for the vast majority of men, I simply do not understand why a man who has faced the issue his entire life and often failed to come to terms with it could think that he could lay such a burden on his wife's shoulders out of the blue and expect anything good to come from it. The reality is, he can't. The reality is that to do such a thing is not noble. It is cowardly and cruel. We each must simply bear our own burdens. There are some burdens we cannot, must not, turn over to those we love.

The couple I speak of did not have a perfect marriage by any means. But they had a working marriage for years. They were achieving their dreams, until he tried to mitigate his guilt by confessing all to her. With that confession, what had been a worthwhile and working marriage flew apart in spite of her fervent desire to keep it together.

When one rings a bell, the bell as been rung. The ringing of the bell can never be undone no matter how much we might desire to have it undone. The consequences are real and they are everlasting. It is a lesson all married non-straight men should consider carefully over and over again.

When I last wrote concerning this issue, one of the comments I received was that I seemed to be biased toward not telling one's wife even though I had told my wife. It was a fair comment. It's true, I did tell my wife. I was absolutely sure I could without any lasting effect on my marriage. What I didn't realize at the time was that even though my marriage was not affected, it didn't mean that my wife felt no effects from it all. She did. Fortunately, she had the professional tools, as a psychotherapist herself, to deal with her feelings. But even for her it has been and is a struggle.

Most women have no such tools. Try as they might, most often tragedy is the end result. Add to that most women are so hurt and angry over the confession that they are unwilling even to try to live with it.

It is wise to remember also that even if a marriage survives, it does not mean it survives happily. Marriages can and do last a lifetime as an armed camp devoid of feeling or emotion, as cold lifeless ghosts of what use to be.

No man can change his sexuality. A bisexual man can learn to bear the burden with help from those who have born their own burdens. He can handle his bisexuality both discretely and discreetly, safely and with restraint while being the husband and father he signed on to be. Married homosexual men are often better off as are ultimately their wives, to end their marriages and give himself and his wife the opportunity to try to reset their lives with a person who meets their sexual needs.

As much as most bisexual men love their wives, the pictures that illustrate this post still excite us. Such is the nature of bisexuality. The fact remains that most women cannot get their head around the fact that their husband could be a part of such a picture and still love her. They simply can't, no matter how much they try.

Jack Scott
Edited at 4:45 pm


  1. Jack - I thoroughly and absolutely love your posts and your many contributions to the bi-married-man blogosphere, BUT your everything-AND-the-kitchen-sink posts drive me crazy! There are at least four major topics that you've touched on here and I could write a lengthy response to each of them. That's not realistic so I'm going to pick the one subject that most energizes me and respond to that.

    The way you have summarized this couple's situation is confusing. You switch between blaming the wife (not being open to a new paradigm) and the husband (not taking advice, not being open to a new paradigm, his blind-side coming out.) The thing is, none of those factors truly matter.

    Because you only knew the wife's point of view you couldn't have known the truth, which is that when the husband came out he already knew he was ending his marriage. Perhaps he didn't know on a conscious level, but he still 'knew' - hence the wrecklessness of the blindside. I'm certain about this because IF he had any motivation to reconcile he would have made a sincere effort to try to do so. He did not. Likewise, the wife's "choice" to accept a new paradigm was never a choice. She already 'knew' that the intimacy she desired from her marriage would go to her husband's lover and she would thereafter wither. If she honestly believed her husband was capable of loving her enough she would have considered opening the marriage. Because that was not possible, the 'paradigm' was never to be.

    Blind-siding a spouse is not the best way to come out. However, for many marriages, keeping the secrets hidden is worse. So in my book, a blind-side is better than maintaining the unhappy status quo.

    A man is who he is. A woman is who she is. Either (or both) can twist and turn their natures in the short-run to accommodate each other and make their relationship work. But all those mechanizations do is fight physics. We are inherently who we are and that puts us on a trajectory. This means that a couple either inherently has what it takes to maintain a mutually fulfilling relationship - or they don't. Cheating, open relationships, turning a blind eye, etc, are short-term methods of trying to manipulate our inherent natures. Running through some (or all) of those options may be vital for some couples because it's in their natures to try everything before giving up. Whereas other couples instinctively know that staying together is not going to work - as was the case with the couple you highlighted.

    Many couples, and straight wives in particular, incorrectly believe the fairytale idea, that "love is enough." It's not. What ultimately matters are only two things. First, the husband must possess a natural ability to make his wife feel desired, and second, the wife's need to be desired must match what the husband is capable of providing. We love many people in our lives but desire is what makes marriage different from all the others. Without a foundation of sincere desire, marriages either don't last, or, they're simply waiting for the executioner's axe to fall.

    It's sad that this couple is breaking up. It is. But ultimately it is for the best, for both of them.

    1. Two Lives, I plead guilty. Wordiness is something I was warned against time and time again throughout high school and college. It's a problem I've never been able to conquer. At this point the old dog probably won't learn new tricks.

      I am glad you find what I write generally worth the struggle to read and pick out the things that most interest you. Coming from you that is high praise.

      I have edited a few paragraphs from the post that were clearly part of what you correctly identified as part of the kitchen sink.

      As you point out, I've never been able to engage the husband in a conversation. What I infer about him comes from his wife's side of the story and my years of experience in dealing with married homosexual guys.

      I'm not sure I agree with you that both knew the marriage was ending. I think she honestly thought she could save it. I do agree with you, at this point, ending the marriage and the relationship is probably best for all of them.

      They are in an uphill battle that just can't be won on terms that would satisfy both.

      Thanks again for the suggestions.

      Jack Scott

  2. While what you write is hearfelt and I understand your desire to to do good, you make an assumption that cannot be made. The assumption is that all secrets stay secret if you want them to bad enough. . Can you be certain that these men will not only take their secrets to the grave but keep them beyond the grave, too? Having spent my life in health care, I know that not to be true....

    How often does a spouse, often a man, just not wake up? Goes to the gym and collapses? Shovels snow and dies? Runs off the road in a snow storm? What happens when the wife or grown son tries to locate the tax returns on dad's computer? Looks for his friends' phone numbers in his cell phone? We all know the kinds of footprints this online hookup culture generates. Keeping this secret may protect these men but can you really say it is in any way designed to protect a spouse? Really? Can you imagine the devastation that this would leave finding out that way? To his image? To a wife mourning not only a husband but the she had of the life she thought she had? To have lost not only a huge part of her life but all the touchstones she assumed would always be there? To the kids who are left to reconcile all this without a father's love to guide them? But perhaps it only matters to him when he's around to experience the ramifications of his deceit. Once he's gone his desire to spare his wife and family departs, too.............

    Some women can live with it and some women can't. Being honest BEFORE marriage is the answer, not lying to get what you want. None of you would face this dilemma had you thought enough of the women you married to level with them up front. You are all quite eloquent in explaining how hard this is for much you struggle...If you spent half the effort getting the women who love you to understand BEFORE you've given them reason to distrust you, had you trusted THEM with the truth, you might have been able to overcome the hurdle. As it stands now, you're right. It may be too late.

    I agree wholeheartedly with Two Lives. Never being "enough" for the person you love can be insurmountable for some people, man or woman. It's not a matter of him not being "enough" or her not being"enough".This woman should have been free to marry a man who could love her COMPLETELY as any man or woman has the RIGHT to expect. Not a man who lied to himself and everyone around him. The tragedy is not that the marriage end; the tragedy is that it ever took place to begin with.

    1. Anonymous, believe me, I understand what you are saying about secrets that leak out beyond the grave. I too have been in the medical field all my adult life and I understand and have seen many times how many people wake up one morning having no ideal that they are beginning their last day of life.

      It is one of the things I considered from a different view point when I told my wife of my bisexuality. Had I thought I could not trust her to keep it from my kids after my death, I would have never told her. Nothing could be worse for them to hear that their father had this secret life after I'm dead. It wouldn't do me any harm, but it would tear them apart.

      It has been said, "We Plan. God laughs." I don't see God that way but the point is well taken.

      I agree with you that telling before marriage is the ultimate answer to this issue. While we are moving in the direction of that being a real option, in my personal opinion we are not there yet.

      We live in a complex world. The truth does not always set one free. Rarely are the issues in our lives only black and white. Mostly, they are more often shades of gray.

      As one commenter pointed out this is not just a bisexual or homosexual issue. It is also a heterosexual issue and the truth is the issue affects more heterosexual marriages than all mixed orientation marriages put together. Heterosexuals handle the issue in different ways. Wives choose to stay married to cheating husbands for security and status among other reasons. Men choose to stay married to wives they no longer love for social standing and because they dislike the thought of coming home to an empty house among other reasons.

      If every marriage that shouldn't have taken place to begin with hadn't taken place, there would be hardly any marriages at all. In fact if one looks at recent studies some say that a girl born in 2012 has a 43% chance of never marrying at all. I think young people simply do not want to repeat the mistakes of their parents.

      Thanks for a good comment. I appreciate it.

      Jack Scott

    2. Look, Jack, I consider myself pretty enlightened. Not a homophobe or bigot by any stretch but I had never seriously considered any of this until I started reading these blogs. While I detest cheating, I've been consistently amazed at how many guys can make their case. That is not to say I don't think some of these guys are self centered whiners who will blame everyone and everything for their lack of courage. BUT, some of the most inarticulate guys have explained in simple but heartwrenching terms how hard this can be. Have made me, someone prepared to dislike them, almost awed by the choices they've felt compelled to make. And amazed by the care with which they made them. My only point is: If you can explain it to me, someone who has no dog in this fight and who has many reasons for loathing cheaters, surely a wife who loves her husband, who has a good man for a husband, who has a husband who has demonstrated himself worthy of is it not better enlist her, if not support, at least understaning and face this as a couple?

      Yes, some marriages might never take place but isn't that a good thing for all involved? Knowing up front allows the recriminations to be left at the door. I'm not saying it isn't terribly hard but nothing could be worse than discovering this accidentally.

      Like you mention, this is not only a problem for mixed orientation marriages..but I would bet anything that same sex as well as opposite sex unions will fare no better if trust is eroded. If desire is lost or can't be redkindled. If that's the case the marriage is better off done unless it is a convenient arrangement. But a marriage in the true sense it is no more.

  3. JS,

    You have started a lively discussion.

    I agree that in some/many cases the husband should just live on the down low and not tell his wife. I believe that happens in a great many marriages anyway whether the husband is having sex with other men or women. So your posting gives support for them in that position - not to hurt their wife.

    But another part of me agrees with Two Lives and Anonymous. That maybe telling her and splitting up is the best way. To avoid her finding out after you pass on is a strong motivation. And maybe you just want out of the marriage and this is the best way to do it.

    I personally carry a lot of guilt about how I split up with my wife and went to live with my partner. So your message about don't tell bothers me - I can't unring that bell. I know in may case there was an element of wrecklessness in telling her and not wanting to go through all the options before separating. So I am very mixed over this all.

    Thanks for addressing this issue straight on.

    1. I'm not surprised that you have mixed feelings. That is the essential point of this line of thought. There is no right or wrong answer, no answer that should or could apply to everyone.

      Guilt is inevitable either way. One simply has to choose the poison that does him and his wife the least harm.

      Thanks for your comment. I think you are on the right track in your thinking. It's just that there is nothing that will make it all go away with no impact.

      Jack Scott

  4. I've been following the story of this couple and I feel for her. Her honest and open blogging has been like watching part emotional roller coaster and part train wreck. If only real life could work out like Fran Drescher in Happily Divorced, where the husband comes out after 20 years of marriage, but due to financial reasons, they stay together in the same house. Unfortunately, this is no sitcom.

    Of course, we have not read the husband's side of this story. It sure would be interesting.

    1. JF, I think you hit the nail on the head. It has been like watching a train wreck. Unfortunately, it is also the wrecking of two lives.

      The best they can do at this point it seems is try to start over with new partners that meet their needs.

      Sometimes, love simply is not enough.

      Jack Scott

  5. Guilt, plain and simple. It's all about guilt and how much of it the husband can withstand. Those who are able to manage their feelings will pull this off, and the others won't. From there it all becomes quite philosophical on each individual's level. To tell or not to tell? Live with the guilt, or fight the personal battle? We can drive ourselves crazy!

    I think for most of us, we know/knew our spouses well enough as we were dating, whether or not our wives would be able to handle any of this, and HOW they stand on homosexuality. Likewise we all have a handle on what our financial situations are, and what a split would actually mean. Having said that, it's the big and often ignored reason for keeping quiet.

    To throw a different spin on things, let's not forget that the exact same thing has ALWAYS happened in gay relationships, whether it's a marriage of sorts, or exclusive relationships that wind up not so exclusive. [It's probably the root of the term "drama queen".] Perhaps a smart way to approach this is to ask ourselves, "How likely is it that my marriage can survive if it became an open marriage?" [Leave out the gay/straight aspect. Consider the aspect of a third party, and then once you've established that answer, add the caveat of being gay. Would it fly? Probably not, and if it does, well then good for you.]

    I'm afraid that I'm an extreme misbeliever when it comes to "ever after", no matter what the context or intentions are. I believe it can happen, but know for a fact, that LIFE can happen as well. It's LIFE that changes everything. It changes who we are, what we want and what we're attracted to. It has ups and downs and is too often unfair. [It's the main reason why I never wanted kids, and as selfish as it sounds, I am so very happy I don't have any. I never wanted to be THAT responsible for someone else's welfare. I didn't have that confidence knowing what life can do, i.e.: the economy, divorce, careers, etc.] But don't forget, once kids are in the picture, it too complicates everything as far as decision making of coming out or making the transgression of married to divorced and gay. I'm thankful I was never in that position.

    I don't think it's ever been done, but I would love to see a survey or poll on marriages that have survived happily the crisis of "affairs" whether they're straight or gay--how many happily survived? THEN, compare that with how many GAY relationships have survived the same thing. What I'm getting at, is my guess is that the gay relationships might score better due to the inherit characteristics of being gay, and understanding the art of don't ask, don't tell, and when it most helpfully applies. Why should anyone think that they are beyond "being cheated on" whether it's in a straight or gay context? At the risk of being crude, shit happens, and very often does--to any of us.

    1. Bob, as always, I enjoy reading your view of an issue. Guilt is a ravenous beast. It will take as much as we are willing to give it and still be ready for more.

      I am convinced that men who succeed are those who can in some semi rational and semi ethical way sublimate their guilt to the needs which they cannot ignore. For me, that sublimation came when I accepted that God made me as I am for a purpose.

      As for being skeptical about "ever after" how could you help being skeptical. As a psychotherapist my wife sees the marriages that end in divorce. What she sees that many people do not is the number of marriages that are woefully unhappy relationships but manage to avoid divorce while holding the couple in an emotional desert and a physical prison of their own making.

      The number of "ever after" marriages are exceedingly rare. Fortunately for me and my wife, we've been able to live an "ever after" life since we were 16 year old sweethearts. I'd love to stay with her another 50 years, but my health issues are not going to allow that.

      I hope some doctoral student reads your suggestion for a study. I'd love to see one such as you describe.

      Thanks, as always, for the benefit of your thinking.

      Jack Scott

  6. I have a young friend who has been married for 12 years now, he has a happy marriage and I have been with him and his wife on a number of occasions. They are a nice couple, both attentive to each other, both attractive and out going. Although they have not had children they don't let it seem to slow them down and are often see with nieces or nephews having a good time. My friend also like guys so he and I get together on occasion for an afternoon of M2M play. He is an attentive and playful lover and always fun to be with.

    He called me the other day very upset and wanted to know if we could have lunch and talk. Seems he found out that his wife had been having a relationship with another women for almost 5 years.

    He said, "I feel so betrayed!" He went on to talk about how he had sacrificed so much for her and that he loved her so much. Like a true friend I just listened and let him vent. After an hour or so he began to calm down. But he keep shaking his head and said, "I just don't understand. Am I not enough for her?"

    Finally I said, "Roger is she enough for you?" He looked at me startled and said, "That is different, men or different than women?"

    So I have to ask, are they?

    1. According to recent studies, in this area at least, the differences are becoming less and less. The number of cheating wives has increased significantly over the last few years.

      In reality, your friend should not be shocked. It is difficult indeed to keep giving one's wife her due, even if you love her, while carrying on a relationship with another man at the same time.

      When I was at the peak of my relationship with a buddy, I had to be very very careful to time my meetings with him to fit the natural breaks in sexual activity that I had come to expect and predict with my wife.

      There was more than one time that I got it wrong and had to fain an upset stomach or a throbbing headache to avoid a performance I simply could not have carried out as a one and done for 24 hours man.

      Women are experts at sensing emotional and sexual distance. A man that does not recognize this is doomed.

      Thanks for a great comment.

      Jack Scott

  7. Jack, once again your post has generated a wide response. What we do know from the various bits of evidence we can find via the blog, and that you have often cited, is that about 5 in 6 marriages where the man comes out as needing sexual intimacy with men, fail. This may be a higher failure rate than for straight marriages, and the reasons 50% of straight marriages fail is complex, but one major factor are revealed affairs with another woman.

    We also know from studies of sexuality and intimacy that as a whole, women are very different than men, and they gravitate toward emotional intimacy and security and their sexual fantasy life is less about visual images of men's anatomy, and more about being held and loved and made to feel feminine and being made to feel secure and supported.

    So it is the exceptional woman who can imagine and tolerate the idea that the man she picked over all other men to be her emotionally intimate, secure, committed mate, will share his body and passion with a man. They do exist, and for Jack Scott and Bi Married Mafia, you two seem to have married those kind of exceptional women.

    Many of us now finding out we have these desires for men had no idea how powerfully programed we are as a gender to be easily aroused by visual sexual images when compared to women, to have a drive to masturbate or have sex with much greater frequency than women, and to have these fantasies and drives build up and build up into an exotic urge to have sex with a man, the more we fought it. Some of us come of age when it was fashionable to try to deny the differences between men and women, and when women't entering the workforce and gaining economic power and confidence made it seem that they would also become less conventionally "dependent" on men. But it turned out the brief experimental period of the late 60's and 70's that even featured the idea of open marriages and wife swapping in Hollywood films, did not last - and mostly because it really did not ring true for most women. Then AIDS and STD's and the concern about fool-proof female birth control added another level of fear among women that their own promiscuity, or that of their men, could wreak havoc on the act of having kids and raising families.

    So society and women in particular moved centrist, and monogamous marriages became the reasserted norm.

    It come to this then, being realistic about how differently women and men in general view monogomy, sexuality, and emotional intimacy: If you and your wife are not fantastically connected, passionately still in love, and she feels you are going to be there for her through whatever crisis might come, the most likely outcome of your coming out is her crushing realization that she has picked the wrong mate, that her marriage is a mockery, and for her own dignity and need for exclusivity and security, the man simply must not be allowed to act on his desires.

    What is implied or stated by comments here, and in other dialogue on the same subject is this truism - if your marriage is not in great shape anyway, coming out may be a catalyst for a separation that might have eventually been a necessity anyway - because in all honesty, you have fallen out of love with a wife, and the habit of marriage is all that is there.
    And maybe that is an easier and kinder message to give her - something Cameron himself has been through.

    I am in the throws of trying to figure this out for myself - and as one gets into one's late 50's and 60's there is an added thought that keeping the marriage together may actually be of greater interest to the wife, who knows the probability of finding another mate is low. But pride and fury and a sense of betrayal can explode at any age.

    We are all alone and on our own figuring this out. But it does some good to hear how others have handled it, and if they told, what provoked that huge disclosure.

    1. from what I hear the concept on monogomy is less important in other cultures. Mistresses, concubines, 2nd wives -these are accepted options to our rigid standards.

    2. Jason, for some reason Blogger will not let me reply directly to your post, so I am replying indirectly. You could not be more on target that women want much more from men than just anatomy. The man that fails to understand this is doomed to a tough marriage or a tough string of marriages.

      I think you raise a good point about open marriages in the 70's and 80's. it has always been my feeling that these swinging relationships were something women tolerated rather than enjoyed. I think also they failed to recognize that the reality of why their husbands wanted to swing was that it gave them a semi acceptable way to get naked with other guys, perhaps even perform with them.

      I think there are several reasons why some men get away with telling and some don't. How I got away with is by now known to all who read this blog. Other men get away with it because their wives no longer want sex anyway and are content with the status being married gives them or the financial support it gives them.

      You are certainly right that a a marriage that is already unhappy will be much more apt to see the husband's bisexuality as a final straw. But there are other reasons too including a hyper religious wife or a wife who is utterly repulsed that her husband could be fond of sucking cock or rimming another man.

      As you suggest, essentially we are all alone in this. We can look at advice and what has happened to others; but in the end our decisions have to be made alone.

      Thanks for some good thoughts.

      Jack Scott

  8. There are so many good points to consider in the original message as well as the replies. I told my wife a little over 3 months ago. We are both 40. We have been together since we were 17. We have two kids; one grown and one still in high school. Like Jack, I fully intended for the feelings to 'go away' after getting married. They didn't. I buried them deep in my soul for years and years. I felt resentment. I felt guilt. Maybe it's due to aging, but I could not live with the dishonesty any longer; the hypocrisy of it all.

    It's true that this can work between a bi guy and his wife. Work is the optimal word. I can already feel my marriage strengthening again after years of unintentional neglect. But, trust me, I am working at this and working hard. She is as well. In my opinion, it's definitely worth it and more.

    I've never really thought of myself as a liar; however, I've been lying to myself for over 25 years. That becomes an unbearable internal struggle. Enough is enough. How could I be honest with my wife and age 21 when we married...when I couldn't even be honest with myself. So, I set the record straight....laid it all on the line.

    Every man (or every woman) needs to decide for him/herself what is acceptable in his/her life. For me, I couldn't take this 'secret' or lie to the grave with me.


    1. -T, your experience as described in your comment is a concise description of my own.
      I guess the thing I hated most was that my bisexuality was the only thing about me that my wife didn't know.

      I don't guess I ever thought of myself as a lier; but I sure was aware that I was withholding the truth.

      Like yours my marriage actually strengthened when I finally told her. But, you and I were just lucky to be married to women who were willing to work with us to strengthen our marriages.

      As you suggest everyone must carefully assess their personal situation carefully in making a decision as to what to admit and what to keep to one's self.

      Jack Scott

  9. I have agonized about this topic. I think in a nutshell I do not believe that short of rampant self deception it cannot be considered "right" to withhold this information from your wife. At least if you are actively participating in sex outside of your marriage. You may choose to not tell (and I am not in any way belittling the struggle or difficulty in that), but be honest with yourself at least, it is not right, not fair, shows great contempt for your wife to usurp that choice from her. It is not "more noble" as if you are being some knight in shining armor. Please do not kid yourself, or at least do not ask me to buy what you are selling. You are fearful of facing the possible consequence ( I have been there). The choice to know and make a decision based on that choice. If you do choose not to tell and she finds out (and I believe inevitably she will) you will own the consequence of having usurped/withheld that choice from her. The hurdle to reconcile at that point will be much higher. I also agree that each must make his own way and we each will take our own path. If we are lucky our wives (who we promised to be on the path with) will participate at that point in the choice. And if you are very lucky she will continue on that path with you. All this assumes you do love her and want to thrive with her/along side her.

    1. Anonymous, yours is the type of comment I like reading most of all because it show in and of itself that you have your own opinions and standards; but at the same time, your mind is still open and struggling to really understand the complexities and realities of life that may transcend the opinions you have already formed.

      In plain words, you are not afraid of discovering new understandings, but you struggle with it. All of that is a very good thing.

      There are many philosophies of life that influence people in every culture; but when one gets down to the basics, all philosophies boil down to only two. One either believes Humanism or in Utilitarianism.

      In the United States the majority of people probably fall on the side of Humanism. Yet there are a significant number of people who are absolutely convinced that Utilitarianism is the best philosophy. I'm one of those.

      Humanism, as a philosophy, focuses on Human values. It stress that right and wrong are decided upon what is best for the common good using human logic, ethics and justice.

      A Humanists may believe that, and usually does, that the greatest ethical value is honoring his marriage vows and if he cannot then the ethical thing is to tell his wife rather than keep his actions a secret.

      If he feels the common good includes all of society and upholding commonly accepted norms of marriage, he may be compelled to tell in the best interests of all of society. If on the other hand, he defines common good as just the good of he and his wife, he may decide the best thing is not to tell.

      Utilitarianism holds that the right or wrong of something can only be measured by its results. The moral worth of something is measure by its outcome. One can only know the morality of something my its outcome. Every course of action we consider must be considered carefully including the likely outcomes. The course of action which has the fewest likely hurtful outcomes is the most ethical course of action.

      This for a man considering telling his wife of his homosexuality or his bisexuality, there is a very real possibility of many people being hurt - his wife, his kids, himself and others. From one who holds to a Utilitarian philosophy, the best ethical decision may be to keep his mouth shut.

      It may also be to confide in his wife and tell her of his sexuality because he honestly thinks doing so may have the least consequences for both of them.

      As you see, people can get to the same place no matter what their philosophical view. That fact simply confirms that how we handle this situation is a very personal one and the way one handles it is not necessarily unethical.

      Simply because it violates an observers ethical standard does not mean it is beyond the lines of ethical considerations.

      In closing, keep in mind that being fearful of possible consequences is not unethical in and of itself. If human beings were not created with the capability to fear untoward consequences, humanity would not exist. We would have self annihilated long ago.

      As you say, each must take his own path. That I may take a path different from yours does not mean I'm trying to kid you in anyway.

      Jack Scott

  10. Married homosexual men are often better off as are ultimately their wives, to end their marriages and give himself and his wife the opportunity to try to reset their lives with a person who meets their sexual needs.
    Jack, I wanted my marriage to work. But the fact is my husband is homosexual. He was not willing to make our marriage work. After agreeing to try and open our marriage, he later admitted to me, he only agreed to it because he didn’t want to hurt me further. I agree with two lives, he has known for a long time whether consciously or not he had no intentions of staying with me after disclosure. His exact words, “I have never “loved” you like that, and I never will.”
    As two lives says, First, the husband must possess a natural ability to make his wife feel desired, and second, the wife's need to be desired must match what the husband is capable of providing.
    He didn’t make me feel desired, I didn’t require a lot, a simple kiss here and there would have made all the difference in the world to me. He wasn’t able to provide me with what I believe was a simple gesture of desire, yet he was able to provide that simple gesture to a man. Fact is I was willing to live the rest of my life with him, not ever being kissed again because I thought he was just incapable of being that intimate with anyone. Knowing he is capable of providing that intimacy with someone else who is not me, can never be undone. The simple fact he never tried with me, and he will admit that he has no desire to.

    The fact is I would have done anything to save my marriage with him. I can't help the fact that he doesn't want to, that he doesn;t want or need me like that. I can only accept it now. After four months I feel that i am finally out of the denial stage, pretending that he will magically realize that he would like to continue a marriage.

    As far as me being able to handle him messing around with men, I could as long as I knew he loved me too. He wants to tell me about his experiances, and I could handle if I knew the marriage would remian intact. I could share my husband, but losing him is a different story.

    As far as being honest. Men, if you plan to stay with your wives then know your wives. Know their reaction, know if they would be willing to work on it or not. Some are, some are not. You take a risk when you admitt to your wife that you are bisexual or homosexual. As a wife I would rather know the truth before you cheated on me. At least i would still have trust in you. Although I would also accept it, hard as it may be I would have accepted it.

    As for homosexuals who want to leave your wife. be hinest with them in disclosure. False hope is never good and it just prolongs the inevitable.

    I personally would have still accepted and married my husband as a gay man if he came out to me before marriage. We both needed one another, and I wanted a son and knew he could provide that for me. Our life would have been led differently and my emotional connection with him would have never crossed the line. Not knowing this information I allowed my emotional state of being to love him fully, getting over that love will be a challenge.

    1. Thanks Anonymous for a very touching letter. Though many don't often recognize it, I try very hard to promote the idea that each guy has to come to his own decision based on his own circumstance.

      A big part of his circumstance is and should be his wife's feelings on the matter and her best interests.

      The fact is, I as a person, rather than Jack Scott, agree 100% with what you have written. My experience in observing 100's of married homosexual men over the last 20 years or so tells me that 95% of the time the marriage between a homosexual man and a straight woman simply cannot and will not last. Of the remaining 5% that do last, the marriage is never truly happy. It is an armed camp held together, not by love and devotion; but by economic necessity, social status or some other influence that has nothing to do with the common bonds of a good marriage.

      A homosexual man simply cannot provide for the needs of a normal straight woman in a marriage. It just cannot and does not happen.

      I personally know a man who has been married over 25 years. He is homosexual though more often than not he describes himself as bisexual. He and his wife long ago stopped having sex. And though he doesn't understand it, it is clear to me that she stopped having sex, because she got nothing out of it. He just does not have the ability to make love to a woman in the way that a straight man can.

      Over the years, they have become nothing more than room mates sharing a house and sharing the bills. There is little else for them. Over the years she has threatened to divorce him many times. She has set deadlines of when this would take place, but she never pulls the trigger on any of her deadlines.

      The fact is a woman rarely leaves a marriage until she has someplace else lined up to go. I believe this woman has become so devoid of emotion that she no longer has the capacity to love and thus she is not motivated to find a man who could have loved her as a woman is meant to be loved.

      On the other side of the issue, I also personally know a man who was living a miserable life as a homosexual married man. It flows that if one partner is miserable the other is too. He had come to accept his fate and in his hopelessness simply existed. She turned to religion in a twisted sort of way, assuming that it was God's will that she was in a lifeless marriage.

      As I got to know the guy, I began to hit him pretty hard telling him that he was far too young to accept his plight. Slowly, he began to tentatively come around to the possibility of hope.

      The process was a long one but he finally filed for divorce. He was absolutely fair to his wife, voluntarily giving her half of everything they had and helping her to set up her own new life.

      Today, he is living openly as a gay man with a great guy by his side. He laughs, he enjoys life, he looks forward to each day. He is alive for the first time in his life.

      Anonymous, I urge to to try your best to stop looking back at what you wish could have been, but which could never have been. Instead allow yourself to look ahead and try your best to find a new life where you too can laugh, perhaps love and be loved and look forward to each new day.

      Best wishes.


I deeply regret that I must reinstate the verification process for those who want to leave comments on my blog. This is due to the intolerable amount of spam that spammers are attempting to leave on the blog.

At the same time I am changing settings so that those of you who have a Google Blogger ID or other recognized blogger ID will not have to have your comments moderated. My hope is this will encourage more readers to take the time to comment. The fact is I want to read comments with those of you who disagree with me as well as those of you who agree with me. All I ask is that you keep your comments clean and non-threatening.

The only reason I take the time to write this blog is to spur your thoughts and comments. Please do not let the spammers cause you not to comment. I know entering the verification words and numbers is a pain in the ass, but I hope you will not let the spammers cause you not to comment.

I still very much look forward to hearing from you.

Jack Scott

Anyone can comment on what I write in this blog. Regretfully, the recent amount of spam in my email account as required that I reinstate the word verification process for comments which I personally hate.

But at the same time I have loosened the comment moderation process so that those of you who have a Google Blogger ID or other recognized blogger ID will no longer need to wait for your comment to be moderated. I'm hoping this will tempt you to take the trouble to comment.

The truth is I want respectful comments both from those who agree with me and those who do not. All I as is that you keep comments to the point, clean and non-threatenting.

I look forward to hearing from each of you.

Jack Scott